Episode 58: The Spirit of Gratitude with Heather Feeler

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NatureBoost Podcast Episode 58 November 2024
"Spirit of Gratitude"

SMA

[Music ♪.]  

>>  Hey there, and welcome back to NatureBoost!  I'm Jill Pritchard with the Missouri Department of Conservation.  In November, we celebrate Thanksgiving and remember what we're thankful for, and I'm always thankful for you, the wonderful NatureBoost listeners.  It was so great to talk to so many of you this fall, during the listener giveaway.  I do have to say, I jumped the gun a little bit with the NatureBoost hoodies.  I didn't realize we were already running low on various sizes.  So, many of you who I spoke to ended up getting long-sleeved T-shirts instead.  I do apologize, that was my fault!  But, I will make sure to keep everyone updated, when we get a new shipment of swag in.  Thank you so much for your patience, and your understanding.  

Highlighting nature's benefits to our physical and mental health has always been at the forefront of this podcast.  And, in staying with this month's theme of thankfulness, I brought in MDC Communications Branch Chief Heather Feeler, to discuss her journey to gratitude and how nature rejuvenates and inspires her.  

[Music ♪.]  

Do you have any obsessions, lately?  I'll tell you mine.  I'm really obsessed with just being in my front yard and watering all of my plants, and looking at all of my new landscaping that I've done, and kind of pulling weeds.  

>>  Yes!  

>>  For some reason, I find that to be the most joyous part of my day.  [Laughing.]  

>>  That's awesome!  

>>  Yeah.  Do you have anything that you're really liking lately?  Food, or activities, or . . .?  

>>  I don't know if it's a lately one, but I definitely have a love of letter writing, and stationary.  

[2:00.]  

There's something very relaxing for me about being at my table, I light a candle, I have a cup of tea, and then I have several pen pals or folks that I'm thinking about, that I write a notecard to.  I think when I seal it up, I think "a little bit of love is coming somebody's way."  I think there's something for me, about disconnecting from being online, and just the handwritten word.  Just doing that is such a wonderful exercise for me.  I need to do it more.  I try and make that a practice that I do weekly, but it doesn't always happen.  Sometimes, it feels rushed, and not in the spirit of "I'm taking time to reflect on my life, I'm asking questions about yours . . ." so, I'd say letter writing for me is definitely . . . and I love stationary, Japanese stationary, French stationary . . . I'm kind of a stationary card nerd.  I could talk all day about stationary.  [Laughing.]  

>>  I've received gifts of stationary from you that I just love.  Also, I've been at the receiving end of getting one of your sweet cards, whether here in the office or actually mailed to my address.  It's like a little present.  Normally, we just get junk mail or bills . . . and I love that you send snail mail, and it's so thoughtful.  I also want to tell you that you actually have . . . because you've done that, you have inspired me to do that as well.  

>>  Aww!  I love that.  

>>  Yeah.  Also, you have the prettiest handwriting!  Do you practice?  

>>  No.  I did when I was in third grade.  When I got my first pen pal, working on my penmanship, working on my letters . . . now I feel like my handwriting is not that great, because you don't do it as often, you know?  You used to write everything out in school.  Now it's a little bit different, even in business correspondence.  It's totally different.  Thank you for saying that my handwriting is very nice!  It's something I don't feel like I work on.  But, I do write letters, so that is a practice of that.  

>>  It's beautiful!  I love getting your little notes.  

So Heather . . .

[4:00.]  

I'm really excited to sit down with you and talk about your program that you have done this past year, called "the spirit of gratitude."  You did this through MDC.  They hosted this really cool program.  I didn't get a chance to attend it, but I've heard wonderful things.  Many accolades, wonderful praise for Heather Feeler.  

>>  Thank you!  [Laughing.]  

>>  Academy award!  First off, tell our listeners . . . tell us a little bit about you and what prompted you to create this spirit of gratitude program.  

>>  Yeah, absolutely!  Probably about a year after the pandemic, a sister agency had reached out.  Their staff were really just struggling, right?  We'd been at home during the pandemic, so much stress and anxiety around that, and then we were back in the office . . . so, they were having a team gathering online.  We weren't gathering in-person then.  They really asked for someone who could provide an inspirational topic, but they were open to what that topic would be.  Because I was researching and learning a lot about gratitude and trying to put that more into practice myself, I asked if they would be open to a gratitude presentation.  

So, I developed this "spirit of gratitude" presentation then, to try and share what I'd been learning, and what I was hopeful for, in terms of my gratitude journey.  They were really receptive to it, even though it was just an online program.  From there, it's just built and added on.  I've done some internally for our conservation staff, I've done some for some public groups that I've worked with, and even some nature center public programming that we've done.  So, everybody has been so kind and open.  I've learned so much from them when they talk to me after the presentation, to say "hey, this is what touched me, these are some things I'm doing that I'm working on."  It's been more learning for me too, as I've shared a little more about gratitude and other people's journeys as well.  

>>  Ahh, I love that!  It's far reaching, and then you learn from other people who are attending as well.  

>>  Yes, absolutely.  It's been wonderful.  

>>  I'm so happy to hear that!  

[6:00.]  

So, getting into it . . . how would you even define gratitude?  

>>  Yeah.  A lot of times I start with that during my presentation.  Because, what is gratitude?  The Webster definition is "the quality of being thankful, and the readiness to show an appreciation for, and to return kindness."  I always knew gratitude was thankfulness, but I think the other part of the definition is what I've really kind of honed in on, zoomed in on during my gratitude journey.  The readiness to show appreciation for, and to return kindness.  

And so, it's this idea that we have to be open to things around us that we're grateful for, and be ready to speak that, to show that appreciation for, and also how we return kindness to others.  It's also a part of our gratitude journey.  For me, it's this idea that we can have lots going on around us, right?  Hard things happening, good things happening, but it's our ability to recognize both, and to really show appreciation for things that are around us.  Sometimes for me, we think those are big things, but they're really the small things around us, right?  We're just being intentional about recognizing, appreciating . . . so, a little bit more about the journey there.  

>>  Say . . . will you repeat the definition again?  "The readiness to . . .?"  

>>  Yeah.  The Webster definition, the first part of it is "the quality of being thankful", which is something.  But, the readiness to show appreciation for, and to return kindness . . . so, we're ready to show appreciation, and really to give kindness back to people.  Maybe, even kindness to ourselves, right?  That appreciation that we are ready for that, we're being intentional and focused on that.  For me, that's kind of been an additional learning that I've had in my gratitude journal.  It is thankfulness, but it's a little bit different, yeah.  

>>  Yeah.  I love that, not only to others, but also to yourself.  If you're anything like me, I'm sure other people can relate to this as well, you have a tendency to be really hard on yourself, and the worst critic.  

[8:00.]  

It's like, "oh no, I need to return that to myself too."  

>>  Right.  Even a little bit, you know, when I was digging more into what other authors and folks had talked about gratitude.  You know, like Brene Brown, she writes a lot of books on leadership and vulnerability, and authenticity.  She does tons of research, she's a researcher.  One thing she shared which has really been eye opening for me, is that two people can have the same situation happening to them, but the people who had more joy in their lives, what she's found through research . . . people who really lean into joy, the one thing they had in common was gratitude.  

>>  The gratitude . . .?  

>>  They had a gratitude practice, they had gratitude for things.  Even though maybe, Jill, you and I are dealing with similar hard things in our lives . . . if there's more joy there, that they really had a gratitude practice, even though they were dealing with hard things.  I thought that was interesting, you know?  Just as part of our journey, right?  Gratitude isn't just all things going right for us, all things going well.  We can have joy and gratitude even when things are hard.  

>>  Right.  Recognizing that I'm going through a hard time, hard things are happening . . . I can acknowledge that, but also not dwell on it, maybe?  

>>  Right.  

>>  I can look and be like, "okay, but I'm also grateful at the same time."  Like, you can be both at the same time.  

>>  Yes, that's exactly right.  I think in my own journey I thought, "man, I'll be grateful when all things are going in the right direction, all things are on a positive track."  But, there is this thing that I'm learning.  We really are, like . . . at the same time you cherish the world, you also have to endure it.  There's hard things happening at the same time that we have really great things happening.  They're kind of on parallel tracks, you know?  That's eye opening for me sometimes, right?  

We do have hard things going on, and at the same time great things going on.  How do we navigate both?  

>>  It's, I think the "all or nothing" mindset comes into that.  Would you agree?  

>>  Yes.  

>>  Like . . . "I can finally achieve happiness and joy when everything . . . "

[10:03.]  

You know?  And maybe there are times when everything is going right, but it's fleeting.  It's not like that . . .

>>  Exactly.  Life is up and down.  There's challenges among joyful things too.  Just being able to navigate, think about that in your gratitude journey.  Like, I look back at my life and I'm really grateful for some hard things I had to go through, because it has morphed me into the person I am.  Resiliency, fortitude, grit, determination . . .

>>  Right.  

>>  Sometimes, the empathy for people that I've gone through situations with, that may not have been there before.  I think the hard things teach us as much as the wonderful things in our lives too, if we're willing to take time to process that gratitude for, you know, what's happened.  

>>  Is being mindful maybe a part of that as well?  

>>  I think so too.  I think being mindful, some self reflection, I think all of those things . . . which is why I love this gratitude topic.  It's why I love the gratitude journey, because all of that is putting into some practice, and working through that.  I think that's really important.  

I mentioned Brene Brown, but you know . . . lots of research goes on.  There's a happiness lab at Drexel University, and they're doing lots of research when they talk about practicing gratitude, how it can really help you move towards peace and mindfulness, and away from fear, regret and anxiety.  I love that thought.  Research can really tell us that we can move in a different direction, if we're willing to be intentional with our gratitude.  Lots of research supports that.  So, the gratitude journey is not just one of, like . . . "hey, I love gratitude, it's wonderful . . ."

>>  [Laughing.]  

>>  And I do, but the research can also show us that it can help with our emotions, it can help move us to a positive place of thinking.  And, maybe move beyond some fear, regret, anxiety that has really been high since the pandemic, you know?  

>>  Oh, yes.  

>>  We all went through this really life or death situation together.  I think we've come out on the other side a more anxious people, a more depressed people, a more, you know . . .

[12:01.]  

>>  Maybe more isolated too?  

>>  Isolated, right?  So, even the things . . . even though the pandemic, we're in a new phase of the that and beyond that, some residual effects are still there.  So, I think gratitude can really have a positive impact on some of those things that we're still dealing with every day, that may have been magnified by the pandemic.  

>>  Well, I love that you brought up that there's science and evidence to back up this idea.  

>>  Yes.  

>>  Yeah, these findings.  

>>  Absolutely, yeah.  

>>  Looking through your presentation, something I loved that really stuck out to me, that I'd love to discuss a little bit with you . . . you had a bullet point in there about being the main character in the movie of your life.  

>>  Yeah.  

>>  What does that mean?  

>>  I like to talk to people about great storytelling, you know?  I love that myself.  If you think of any book you've read or any movie you've watched, there's kind of an equation for great story telling.  It's fourfold.  A great main character, we have to believe in that great main character, there's conflict that always serves the story, there's a story turn where someone goes through a door, and they're never the same . . . a positive story turn, maybe they have a baby, or a negative story turn, they go through a divorce.  

And, the main character has ambition, right?  All of those make us believe in somebody, with supporting characters in the movie and things like that.  I often think about, what if you're the main character of your own story?  Like, if you thought about yourself as a movie character, would you make any decisions differently?  Would you think about the supporting characters in your life, and choose more wisely who you surround yourself with?  

Would you be braver to make a "yes" decision, if you could see like . . . "if I go through this door it's going to be scary, but man, when I get on the other side, my character is going to be refined, defined", you know?  "Enhanced, encouraged", all those things.  If we can look from high above, like we're on the balcony saying . . . "if I'm the main character of my own life, would I be more brave with my decisions?"  

[14:03.]  

Or, "would I be more thoughtful about the people in my life?"  You know, would we make decisions differently?  I don't know.  Maybe some of us would, some of us wouldn't.  I think I'd be, maybe, braver in my decision making.  I want my story to be better, you know?  

>>  For the plot!  

>>  Yes!  

>>  There's a trend on social media, where it's like "do it for the plot", you know?  The plot of your own story.  

>>  That's exactly right.  I think about it in my own life.  There's been chapters in my life that I'd say, would have a negative bent to them.  Growing up, I grew up without a dad.  I looked around at other people and thought "man, I'm so jealous.  They've got a great family, they've got a dad in their life."  What I couldn't see down the road, is that negative chapter that I thought was so negative, ended up making me a person who wanted to help kids through Big Brothers Big Sisters, or in our youth group.  I really have an understanding and empathy for them, because I know what it's like to look around and think, "man, I'm jealous of other things", right?  But, what wonderful things there are in our own family, even if we struggle, even if it's not what we envisioned as the perfect family . . . there can be so many wonderful things within that.  

I look at my own life, and that was one chapter, but man, it was refining me for some really great things to come.  I'm so grateful for that, right?  I'm able to relate to other kids, relate to struggling families, and to say "hey, this is really hard, but some good can come from that if you're willing to see it through, and treat it as a chapter in your life, not the full story."  

>>  Absolutely.  Yeah.  Again, not dwelling on it . . . I think, also, would you agree that sometimes you don't see it whenever you're in it?  

>>  Absolutely.  

>>  You get that perspective after?  

>>  Absolutely, which is hard, right?  When you're in the middle of, you know . . . [laughing.]  A crisis or conflict, it's all you can think about, you know?  Then you get down the road and bit and think, "man, I may have done something differently."  

[16:03.]  

Or, "things were so raw and hard right then."  I look back now, and I'm glad I got through it.  I'm a better person.  I'm glad I didn't burn everything down and every bridge I had, right?  [Laughing.]  Because, there's something redeeming here, whether that's a relationship, or a challenge you faced at work, or a personal goal you had.  It can be redeemed, right?  So, hard things can be made into wonderful things.  But again, some self reflection, gratitude for what was, or what is, I think that's really an important part of that.  

>>  So, that's the advice you would give somebody who may be listening now, who's in that, who's in that terrible situation, whether it be work, or personal life, or whatever . . . just to . . .?  

>>  Yeah.  If you're the main character of your own story, and think about what you're going through, think about who your supporting characters are around you.  Think about resources you have to help.  Is this just one small chapter in your life, and are there better things ahead, you know?  Bigger things ahead?  How do you stay hopeful and keep working towards that, you know?  

>>  Mhmm.  

>>  I think that helps set perspective.  Man, it's hard!  [Laughing.]  

>>  It's hard in the moment, right.  

>>  Yeah.  It's easy to say, harder to live through, harder to be a part of that.  Even in my own struggles I can sit here and say "man, I worked through that, and I'm so glad I got to the other side, but man, getting to the other side . . ." [laughing.]  It takes a lot of work and support from people around you.  Being grateful for those people, and being strategic, which I talked about in my presentation, about who is in your cabinet of advisors.  Who is around you that can . . .?  

>>  I love that, "cabinet of advisors."  

>>  I've had a lot of cabinet advisors.  It's one where, you know . . . my partner for a lot of years, Charles, was 50 years older than I was.  Boy, he gave me a lot of perspective in my life.  I'd be venting about things, and I'm easily casting myself in the victim role, sometimes of a story.  Like "oh, this was done to me, this happened", and he'd always be such a thoughtful listener.  The next day he'd call and say "Heather, I've been thinking about what you shared with me.  I guess I want to ask you, you know, could you be part of the problem here, in keeping this moving forward?"  And, man . . .

[18:05.]  

>>  It's like, you don't want to hear that at all, but at the same time . . .

>>  Yeah.  You don't want to hear that, but also, someone who loves you, supports you and is saying "hey, for the good of you as a person, for the good of your growth, I want to reflect back to you . . . you have a role in this too."  

>>  That is so . . . I will say, I have a Charles.  Her name is Jen.  

>>  Yeah!  

>>  You know you have a truly great friend whenever they can be honest with you enough to tell you "Jill, I love you, but . . . this was your fault, or you did this."  

>>  Exactly, right?  Part of support, love and encouragement is being like "I have your back, I'm with you", but also just reflecting back a little bit.  Like, "hey, I want you to be successful, and to have the good of moving forward."  But, there could be something you have a part in, to think through.  

>>  And they want you to grow because of that.  

>>  Yes, to work through it.  Boy, that comes with trust and relationship building.  But, other cabinet advisors I think of as someone who can make you laugh, or someone who can have adventure in your life with you.  There are a lot of reasons to diversify that cabinet of advisors for those around you, right?  They fill a role, an important role, and they're all different.  I often think, to think through who those people are, why they're in your cabinet of advisors.  Sometimes, they don't need to be.  

>>  I was going to say.  Sometimes, you have to rethink your cabinet of advisors.  

>>  You do, absolutely.  They speak the truth, they speak it candidly, and you need that.  Some people are just to sit with you, help you, comfort you, you know, those kinds of things.  We need a variety.  But, yeah.  

>>  I love that idea!  So, I think that can really give you a new perspective on your life, and your decisions.  You know, the trajectory of how you want things to go, it's that idea of "hey . . . I am, we're all the main character of our own life movie."  

>>  Yes.  

[20:01.]  

>>  And, so . . . "how do we want this movie to play out?"  

>>  Yeah, definitely.  When you're thinking about your movie, is it a comedy . . .?  Is it an adventure?  

>>  [Laughing.]  

>>  Is it a sad . . .?  

>>  Hopefully, it's all those things.  

>>  Exactly right.  But, what do you want that to look like?  Can you set the vision for how you'd like that to go?  I think sometimes there's power in that, putting it out there in the world that "I want a little more of this, and maybe less of this", and trying to go after that.  

>>  Yeah.  What would be on the soundtrack of your movie?  

[Music ♪.]  

>>  Oh man . . .

>>  [Laughing.]  Have you ever thought about that?  

>>  Oh, all the time . . . or, "what's your walk up song", you know?  

>>  [Laughing.]  Your walk up song?  

>>  Yeah.  For me, it's Katy Perry's "Rise."  

>>  I'm not sure I've heard that.  

>>  Oh . . .

>>  Can you sing a little . . .?  

>>  No . . . you don't want.  

>>  Hum a little . . .?  

>>  You've heard it . . .

[Crosstalk, humming.]  

[Laughing.]  [Unclear.]  

>>  I'll have to look it up!  

>>  Yeah.  For me, it's a song about "vultures are swirling, a lot of people might be against you, but man, how you have your integrity, how you rise in this world . . ."

>>  Ooh!  Good message.  

>>  Yeah.  Just stay focused on what you need to be doing, and don't let the drama and the talk and other things get in the way.  I remember, it was several Olympics ago, they had it as a promo, her song with Olympians.  I think I watched that video like 400 times.  I just got chills every single time, of the hard work and grit and determination it takes to be at that level, and just . . . man, what a gift it is to even get to hear their stories and see the kind of athletes they are.  I'm all for that kind of positive encouragement and . . .

>>  Motivation.  

>>  Motivation, yeah.  I often tell people that when I'm having a really bad day, I'll often watch videos at the end of the day about um . . . X-factor.  

[22:00.]  

Or, singing shows . . . you know?  

>>  Oh, like the competition shows?  

>>  The competition shows where they do the golden buzzer that rains down when they're going to make it to the next thing.  

>>  Oh, yeah.  

>>  The reason . . . not because I have a desire to be a singer, obviously.  I didn't even sing on this podcast.  I don't have secret ambitions to be a singer.  First, I love the story telling about why they're there, why they've put themselves out there in the world to do this singing competition.  The reason why I watch it on my bad days, is because on my worst day when I'm thinking "I'm struggling, maybe things aren't going the way I want . . ." someone else's dreams are coming true in the world.  

So, I think a lot about "tomorrow is a new day for me."  At the same time I'm struggling, man, someone is firing on all cylinders, and tomorrow is a new day for me to begin again and me to work towards my own goals.  Maybe the golden buzzer won't rain down. . . .

>>  Maybe not today.  [Laughing.]  

>>  But, I think about that a lot.  It's a perspective, right?  Today is just one day in many.  To keep working through that . . . I think people are brave.  They're out there on a singing competition, putting themselves out there to fail or to succeed, and to the opinions of others, which is subjective, right?  Yet, they're still brave enough to do that.  Sometimes, it's just a couple of videos to remind myself, "look at them being brave, putting themselves out there, their story out there . . . man, it's paying off for them."  It'll pay off for me, I hope it'll pay off for you.  It's this idea, a new day is coming tomorrow.  Hopefully it'll be a great one, where we're firing on all cylinders, having our dreams come true, but we've just got to keep working at it.  Keep plugging along.  

>>  And, every day is a new beginning.  

>>  It is.  

>>  Something I'd like, just to tell our listeners who are listening to this interview right now, is that Heather's office, number 1 . . . the cutest office in the world!  Heather has a . . . is it a letterboard?  

>>  It is.  

>>  On the door to her office.  About every week or so, she'll have a different message.  

[24:00.]  

A funny message, or a very motivational message, but on one . . . I'm pretty sure it was on your letterboard, or it might have been something else.  I saw this message really resonated with me.  The message was, "don't trip over what's behind you."  

>>  Mhmm.  

>>  And it's . . . oh, my gosh!  "Why am I tripping over that?  That's way in the past."  

>>  Yes.  

>>  And then, whenever you dwell on that, you're not being mindful in the present, and you're also not looking in front of you to the future as well.  

>>  That is exactly right, yeah.  We spend a lot of time thinking about things behind us, right?  Which, again, it's not bad to do self reflection and self improvement.  There's some benefit to that.  But, when all our focus is on that, then what's in front of us today?  A beautiful sunrise, a great song, someone's kindness in front of us . . . we don't pay attention to that, right?  Because we're so focused on our own brains, our own emotions about what's behind us.  Again, how do we be intentional and thoughtful about what's here, and having that focus right in front of us?  

>>  Absolutely.  So, I'd like to ask you what are your best or favorite ways to practice gratitude?  

>>  Sure!  

>>  Is this something you try to do every day?  

>>  I do, I'm not always successful.  I do think about it a lot, and try and practice it.  There are a couple of things I try to hone in, on my own gratitude journey.  One is making time and space to refocus.  We all have busy calendars, busy agendas.  I think I read something like, we get 5,000 messages a day coming at us from music or podcasts or emails or billboards . . . all the things.  All that messaging can be hard to make sense for our own time to think.  So, how do we make space to focus on that?  

Then, I keep a gratitude journal.  A few years ago I read a book called One Thousand Gifts by Ann Voskamp.    

[26:00.]  

She really shared that a way to give thanks in this world is to give thanks one small thing at a time, and those moments will add up.  Her idea is to keep a journal . . . mine is one just recycled journal from my kids.  It's got stickers on it.  You write 1 to 1000, and each day you write one or two things that you were thankful for until you get to 1000.  I think I'm on 546.  

>>  Wow!  

>>  I don't do it every day, but I try and do it several times a week.  The things that you write down, they're really small things.  Some of the things in mine are snuggling with my kids, a great cup of coffee, a beautiful sunrise, you know?  Things that I think . . . "I'm so grateful for this today", whether a comfort or a challenge in my life.  When you look back at those, you really think "man, I have a lot of blessings coming at me."  Just to look back even a year ago, some of the things I was grateful for may be different than now.  So, that daily practice.  Some people like to write in a journal, and some people like to just put it in their phone, like their phone app.  Not everybody is a paper person like I am.  I also worked with someone that did something called "leveling up."  

>>  Hmm.  

>>  At the end of the day, before she went to bed, she'd think of one thing in her day that went awesome, right?  And, one thing in her day that she wanted to level up, and do better the next day.  This was so impactful to me, because it's like . . . you're grateful for one thing, you want to name it, but the other thing is, I'm still a work in progress.  I've got some work to do.  I remember, you know she and I had a conversation the day before in a meeting, and the meeting went fine.  But for some reason she "leveled up" that night, and came to talk to me the next day to say "you know, I want to handle that conversation a little better.  I'd like to start again, if you don't mind."  

I'll never forget that, because it's like, she didn't owe me one thing . . .

>>  This was a work thing?  

>>  Yeah.  The conversation went fine, and I just so appreciate that for whatever she was thinking about that day, she thought "I want to approach this conversation with this person a little differently, and I'll have the conversation the next day."  

[28:03.]  

"And, I'm going to do better."  

>>  How impactful!  

>>  Yes.  Just that someone is vulnerable enough as a leader, authentic enough in who they are to say "hey, I didn't handle that the best, you may not even be thinking about it", you know?  But it's just, "I want to do better."  I love her idea too, that it's not just all things that you're grateful for, but also things like "man, I want to do better, and it's balanced", right?    

>>  Yeah!  

>>  It's one on one, not like "50 things I need to do better, just one thing I'm grateful for."    

>>  Right.  

>>  So, whatever your practice is, there's a lot of different ways to be thoughtful at the end of the day, or at the beginning of your day, whenever you have the most energy, to think through those small things that you want to do.  

And, finding joy in the small things for me is really outdoor time in nature.  I really am grateful to be here at conservation.  We have beautiful trails and trees around us, and the green space out my window.  I'm grateful for that.  

>>  I was going to ask.  Can nature play a role?  

>>  It does for me . . . I hope it does for everybody.  Nature is so healing.  I find whether it's just sitting by water that does it for you, a lot of people are lake or ocean people or river people . . . for me, it's being among the trees and hiking.  I love to hammock, just being out on my hammock and the relaxation of that really is a blessing to me.  Even seeing a sunset, it's such a reminder of the beauty of the day.  Everything gets calm, you hear the night time creatures start their noises, and it just feels like an unwind, relaxed time.  I really appreciate that.  I feel like nature can really center us and help us focus, instead of trying to multitask on 50 things.  We're not doing well multitasking . . . just kind of center and focus.  

I'll tell you, there are times in nature when I look at a sunrise, or a mountain, or just a hiking trail full of trees around me, and I think . . . "I feel so small in this big, beautiful world", right?  

[30:02.]  

And, the idea that we are impactful as people, but we are just one, tiny part of a bigger equation.  And so, how we treat nature, how we treat each other, matters.  And, it's a reminder to me when I can get so self-focused on myself, like "me, me, me, my, my, my . . ." you know, it is a "we conversation", right?  How we connect with nature, how we take care of things, how we take care of each other.  Being in nature is that reminder for me.  So, the more I can do that, the more it's not so self-focused, but it can be outer-focused.  To me, gratitude is definitely an inside job, but it's also looking outward, and how we care for each other, take care of each other too . . . so, yeah.  

I recognize too that gratitude can be a solo effort, but man, the team around us, the people around us . . .

>>  It's like a ripple effect.  

>>  It is a ripple effect, too.  And, the gratitude journey, I always say, it's a marathon not a sprint.  I know that's kind of a clichéd term, but you try and take it in chunks, and do it as a daily practice or weekly practice.  Sometimes you do great, and sometimes you don't.  But if you just keep plugging at it, keep reintroducing it, refocusing on it . . . it can really be, I think, a valuable part of your journey.  One where somedays you're doing better than others, but if you keep at it, keep with it, do the best you can.  

>>  So, when did this gratitude journey start for you?  Around . . .?  

>>  Yeah.  I don't know if there's ever been, I can't think . . .

>>  "This day and time."  [Laughing.]  

>>  Yeah.  I can't think of a time when I wasn't doing gratitude, and then I was.  I will say, I think as I've grown more into knowing myself better, and trying to think about knowing others better, I think this idea and learning about gratitude and researching about gratitude . . . I think there's just so much there.  I don't want to get to the end of my life and think "I didn't appreciate things along the way."  There is this idea that, I want to enjoy the small things, because they really do add up to bigger things.  And, to really have an appreciation for that along the way.  

[32:03.]  

>>  Right.  

>>  And so . . . I also hope that it will help me be resilient when hard things happen, whether to myself or to my family or to friends around me, to think . . . it's not a Pollyanna thinking of "it will be fine, everything will be fine."  

>>  It's not toxic positivity.  

>>  Yeah, exactly.  It's just this idea that amidst all these hard things, there's still really beautiful things if we can just be intentional and have our eyes open to them.  I just want to do that.  Sometimes people come into our lives and help us do that, right?  It's like "oh man, this person when I'm around them, they have such joy and light and energy, and I want a little more of that for whatever reason."  I think that people can really help us along in our journey.  I think mine has been gradual, but I think as I've developed more into who I am, it really has just come out more and more, yeah.  

>>  And, you can see the ways that it has improved your life?  

>>  Absolutely, yeah.  

>>  And, how it has touched others, again.  

>>  Definitely.  I love talking to people.  I hope people when they hear this podcast, will talk to you or write-in to you, you know, as the host of this podcast to say, like, their gratitude journey and what has helped them along the way.  I think hearing other people's stories, it's like "man, that's a nugget right there.  I want to do a little more of that."  

>>  Inspiring.  

>>  I've learned so much from people along the way when I've shared my gratitude journey, and just to hear what they're doing, it's like "man, that's good stuff right there."  We can still shamelessly and replicate and . . .

>>  Oh yeah!  

>>  And do that too.  Anyway, I hope some listeners will also share their gratitude journey and what has been impactful to them.  

>>  I hope so too.  So, for people who would like to learn more, do you have any books or author recommendations or other resources?  

>>  Sure, absolutely.  One, a couple of books that I just love . . . I mentioned One Thousand Gifts by Ann Voskamp.  But The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin was really a book that I found so much value in.  Every month of the year, she tries to find happiness in different elements of her life.  One is like, her parenting . . . one is her cozy space around her.  One is her work, you know?  

[34:00.]  

>>  Mhmm.  

>>  And so, just this idea that there's small things that we can do to increase our happiness factor, and what does that look like?  I learned a lot.  One of the things she said was "the thing you did when you were 10 years old, that brought you joy, if you can replicate that into adulthood, it will reconnect you with that joy and happiness that you felt as a child."  

>>  Okay, hold on . . . I want to think on that for a second.  

>>  Yeah . . . [unclear.]  

[Crosstalk.]  

>>  For 10 year old you?  

>>  I immediately called my mom . . .

>>  [Laughing.]  

>>  Mothers are the historians of everything, right?  

>>  Truly.  

>>  I called her like "mom, what did I like to do when I was 10 years old?"  She was like, "two things.  One, you loved to play . . . " We lived in an apartment, but there was a creek in the back of our apartment with trees around it and everything, and I was always in that creek, I was always getting dirty in the water, in the woods.  She said "that was always your happy place, and you loved to ride your bike around the neighborhood.  Your only rule, you could ride as far as you wanted, but you just had to be home when the street lights came on."  What I can say to that, is I miss the 80s.  

>>  [Laughing.]  I was going to say . . . that's an 80s thing, isn't it?  

>>  I miss the 80s.  But when I look at that, so . . . nature, that connection with nature is a happiness, joy factor for me, which we've talked about.  Also, the idea of the bike riding, it wasn't about the bike necessarily, but I think it was, I had a spontaneous schedule.  Things were not so regimented.  

>>  Oh . . .

>>  When I look at my life with my work calendar and my personal family calendar, things are packed.  So, if I can have some time, that I can have where there's nothing scheduled, that I can have some spontaneous time to do what I want, I just have to be home maybe when the street lights come on . . . it can really engage, I don't know, my happiness factor of when I was a kid.  

>>  I love that.  

>>  So, more of that into my schedules.  It's a reminder to me, "that brings you joy, that brings you happiness, so don't forget about that.  That's important, to not have your schedule so tight and packed, because that's who you are, what feeds you and fuels you."  So, work on that.  

>>  Absolutely.  [unclear.]  

[36:01.]  

>>  So . . . what about you when you were 10?  Do we need to call your mom?  [Laughing.]  

>>  [Laughing.]  Oh gosh, wouldn't she love that.  You know, I think this is going to sound silly, but I think it was . . . I had this weird habit, after we had dinner as a family, my mom would cook dinner every night.  I helped clean up and put the dishes away, but then I would go outside and I'd just make up songs, and sing outside in our driveway . . . I'd just walk around and sing my made up songs.  I just have so many memories of doing that.  So, no I'm not a good singer . . . a good car singer, for sure, shower singer like everyone else, but I'm not any type of, you know, song writer or anything.  

But, maybe there's a creativity element to that?  

>>  That's what I was going to say.  When you said that, I think this idea that we can be creative, be spontaneous creative, and just like . . . dance how we want, sing how we want, create any kind of silly song that we might create, or want to put together.  It gives us this avenue to tap into our creative side.  Sometimes I tell people, if that's your thing, think about taking a class to do something new.  Whether you take a pottery class, or making paper, or . . . whatever that might be, just to use your brain . . . [unclear.]  There's no goal at the end but to create, and to do it in the way that you'd want to do that.  

>>  Yeah!  

>>  A lot of times we can take a class because "we've got to get a certificate," or "we've got to finish."  "This will get us to this goal."  So, the idea that we can just create, and let ourselves go in that direction, only for the pure joy of creating.  

>>  Right.  And, it's not graded, and . . . if it doesn't look good, it doesn't matter.  It's just, you created something.  That's the only part.  I love that.  

>>  One of the things I encourage people, when we talk about resources . . . I talked about a few books.  One, is to take a local class.  If something like our nature center has great, creative nature classes to take . . .

[38:03.]  

>>  They do!  

>>  There's also art classes, or you know, hiking classes or learning outdoor skills, and so there's lots of classes that can just, use your brain a little differently.  I always think that that's a great way.  There's also great online learning opportunities.  So, I took a Yale class through Corsair, [sp?] which was a free class, I think it was "science and wellbeing for teens", because I have teenagers and I work with teens.  I will tell you, I learned so much.  One of the things I carry with me, is this idea . . . have you heard of the concept of "time confetti"?  

>>  I've never heard that before, no.  

>>  In this Yale class, they talked about . . . we always talk about how we don't have enough time in our day, we don't have enough time to do this or that.  But they talk about how we have these pockets of time confetti, the time we're waiting in the car line for our kids, the time we're waiting in the doctor's office, or the time we're waiting in the coffee line.  If you're intentional and thoughtful about how you want to use those times to encourage your brain, and increase your happiness factor, you'll be better.  How I often used to do it, is I'd spend my time confetti scrolling through other people's lives on social media.  

>>  Oh gosh, I think we all do that.  It's terrible.  

>>  And, nothing wrong with that . . . I'm not saying like . . . I love social media, it is, I love it.  But I thought through, I wrote in my phone app, on my notes . . . the thing I want to do during my time confetti time . . . the first one is to text a friend a word of encouragement.  The second is to invite somebody to have coffee or lunch with me that I've been thinking about, but just haven't had time to reach out to, to say "hey, I've been thinking about you Jill, let's do lunch."  The other one, is to read a book, like an actual book with paper . . .

>>  And pages, and . . .

>>  Something that's a story that I want to get into, right?  So, to tuck that in my purse or my bag, and when I have that time to jump in to a book, and really have that be . . . you know?  There are so many great things that I want to read, or want to learn too.  So I think the time confetti thing of, when you have those pockets of time confetti, how do you want to use that better?  

>>  Right.  

>>  That time confetti adds up.  

>>  I was going to say, it adds up!  

>>  It really does, you know?  

[40:02.]  

And so, I think that's just interesting.  

>>  I'm getting so many great ideas from this conversation!  

>>  Yeah, it's one, two . . . so, one book I wanted to mention is, Linda Åkeson McGurk wrote two books that I have in my library.  One is called, There's No Such Thing as Bad Weather.  It's this idea about, Scandinavian moms, their secret to raising kids in the outdoors, in all weather.  

>>  Oh!  Hold . . . is that the place where you'll even see, they'll leave their baby carriages outside if they're going to run in?  It'll be snowing, and . . .?  

>>  Correct.  They nap outside, they live outside.  It's the idea, there's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes.  I've been trying to embrace . . . she also has another book called The Open Air Life, which talks about the healing and nature of the outdoors, and how beneficial it is to our mental, physical, kind of spiritual journey, whatever your journey may be . . . but this idea that every season has a rhythm outdoors, I used to think that fall was my season.  

>>  Mhmm.  

>>  Now, I'm learning winter is.  I love the chill in the air, I love to hike when there's no leaves on the trees, I love the way the landscape looks different, everything is a little quieter in the winter, especially after a snow.  This idea that we can be outdoors and really be appreciative of every season that we have, we just maybe have to layer up a little bit, be more prepared for weather things, whether that's our boots or our extra jacket, and that our kids and families can join us in that journey, or we can be by ourselves . . . but how beneficial every season can be, out in nature.  

>>  Oh!  

>>  It's not just the 70 degree days, which are wonderful here, and we're in that season now, but just all seasons.  That has been really a game changer for me, in terms of thinking about nature and being out in it.  

>>  Well, and you discovered that you're actually more of a winter gal!  

>>  I am!  I am.  I love stocking caps and sweaters, and . . .

>>  Also, I know people, like "summer people", or some people like fall . . . and we all may have our favorite season.  

[42:01.]  

But just that, to be grateful, and to appreciate every season for what it is, and at the same time you're going to wait three, four months to get outside again?  

>>  Right.  

>>  You could be doing it now, yeah!  Just layer up a little bit.  There's something to appreciate in every season.  

>>  Absolutely.  Well, even I a couple of years ago learned how to ice fish.  

>>  No way!  I've always wanted to do that.  

>>  I had never done that.  We did it, I got taught right out here at the conservation pond that we had.  It was just fascinating.  I loved that winter tradition of learning how to do that.  Again, I love to fish, but I had never done any icefishing or anything like that.  It was just a really neat day, and to be out and just enjoy the winter weather, and also fishing, too.  

>>  And, try something new.  

>>  Exactly right.  It was just a neat experience.  Yeah, loved it.  

>>  That's something I've always appreciated working at this job.  I've tried so many things I never would have thought to try.  You don't know, unless you try.  

>>  Exactly.  

>>  You know, expanding those horizons.  

>>  Right.  

>>  Okay . . . so, I'd love to know, as we end our discussion here, Heather, which I've just enjoyed so much, and I've learned so much, and I know that our listeners have too . . . you've inspired me, and I hope you've inspired others to practice that gratitude.  You don't have to start big, you can start small, you know?  

>>  That's right.  

>>  But, speaking of outdoor activities, I'd love to know what your favorite outdoor activity is, and why?  

>>  Oh, man . . . I probably would have said hiking quite a bit ago, but now it's definitely hammocking.  I love my hammock.  So, I'd say maybe even a decade ago, some college students did a presentation for us.  They had a hammock just as a little demonstration there, and I was like "what is this?"  She was like, "it's a double nest hammock, and it's going to change your life."  

>>  Double nest?  

>>  Double nest.  That means, more fabric, and two people can fit in. . . . uh huh.  Yes, and so whether you're solo, and you have extra fabric so you feel more secure, or whether you want to invite a friend to be in your hammock, family, kids, whatever . . .

[44:03.]  

So, I thought hammocking was a complicated outdoor activity, right?  So, they showed me just the quick suspension straps, how to carabiner it on . . . I will tell you, I hammocked for the first time, and it was a life changer for me.  The relaxation, the chance to sway, how it calms my mind and my spirit . . . I eat lunch in my hammock, I sit in my hammock, I nap in my hammock . . . it's just a restorative outdoor practice for me, whether I'm in the mood to just listen to music in my hammock or have complete silence and watch the trees sway . . . it's so small, it can fit in my purse or my bag.  I can take it with me hiking, keep it in the back of my car.  I will tell you, hammocking has been amazing.  I often hammock by myself, but I invite friends to hammock as well, just as a chance to have a cup of coffee, hammock together, and be able to enjoy nature.  

I didn't know how relaxing and restorative hammocking was, but oh . . . yes.  I've taught people how to hang a hammock, it's not hard.  I've taught people, because I feel like they need that in their life.  It's so simple to do, and once you do it, yeah.  

>>  Will you teach me, because I've actually never . . . I've been in a hammock . . . but I've never set one up myself.  I don't have a hammock, and I've always thought it was complicated.  

>>  Oh . . . yes, I'd love to teach you.  This would be wonderful.  

>>  Can we do it now?  

>>  Yes!  Let's definitely do it.  That would be awesome.  

>>  Yay!  

[Music ♪.]  

>>  I was like, why am I saying "hey"?  Hey, hey hey!  You have two hammocks?  

>>  No, it's just one!  

>>  [Laughing.]  

>>  Yeah!  They're connected together because I have a double nest hammock, and two suspension straps.  We're going to wrap around the trees.  They're very small, you can see, you can fit them in the back of your car, in your tote bag, in your purse, but pint-sized, so they're easy to carry around.  

[46:04.]  

We are here, outside of our headquarters campus of the Missouri Department of Conservation, Jefferson City.  So, we're among some trees here of pine and oak, and we're going to find some trees to hammock.  When you look at trees, it can be kind of hard to eyeball the trees, what might be good to hammock on, but I always say, a good rule of thumb is to step it out, and go between trees and do about 6 or 7 steps or strides, like you're walking.  That would be a good filter, if those trees are far enough apart, or too close together.  We want about 6 or 7, maybe 8 strides, to know if that's a good width apart of trees to hang your hammock.  

>>  Okay!  I'm glad that you said that.  Like I said, I've never set up a hammock myself, but I've always wondered what's enough space?  So about 7ish steps?  

>>  Yeah.  7 or 8 steps is good.  It's hard to eyeball.  These trees, we have quite a few trees here, but it can be hard to tell which ones would be great.  In terms of trunk size, we can do bigger trees because our straps are pretty long.  But, massive ones would be pretty hard to get our straps around.  We could do smaller ones too, we just want to make sure they're sturdy, you know?  That it would hold our strap weight and our weight in a hammock.  Most trees are pretty good.  All the ones here would be a great size to hang your hammock.  

>>  Okay.  Let's go to which ones you think would be best.  

>>  Yeah.  I think we'll go under these pine trees.  [Walking sounds.]  You can hear the crunching leaves . . . fall is here!  I love it.  

[Walking, crunching leaf sounds.]  

>>  Talking about ASMR, that's one of my favorite sounds.  

>>  The crunching of leaves?  Oh, yeah!  

So, let's do these trees here.  Let's walk over to the trees, and I'm going to pace it off and take some steps to see.  

>>  To double check.  

>>  To double check.  I think these two trees might be good.  So, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 . . . yeah.  

[48:00.]  

I think these would be good ones to try and hang our hammock.  

>>  See, that's so funny, because to me, I think "wow, that looks like a lot of space", but that's about how much you want?  Okay.  

>>  Yeah.  All of these, I think would be pretty good.  You know, those might be good too, or these other ones too.  You know, 7 or 8 steps would be good.  

>>  Okay.  

>>  What we're going to do, is there's two suspension straps here.  

>>  So the suspension straps, that's what you wrap around the tree?  

>>  The suspension straps wrap around the tree.  You don't have to knot them, they just loop through and then you can hook your carabiner of your hammock on to the suspension straps.  

>>  Okay!  I always thought you had to do some fancy knot tying, or something.  

>>  No, no knots.  I mean, you can tie rope around a tree and do a knot for your hammock, but the suspension straps allow you to not have to.  You never want to hit anything into the tree, never hammer anything into the tree.  The suspension straps are a way that you can be mindful of the tree, as well as hanging your hammock.  

>>  Are these specially made for hammocking?  

>>  They are.  You can just, if you look online you can just do "suspension straps, hammock suspension straps."  There's a lot of different varieties.  You can see, they have little . . .

>>  Little loops every so often.  

>>  Yeah.  To put your carabiner on.  So we'll just go right here.  You just want to loop it around, about as high as you are.  

>>  So, you want it about as . . .

>>  As tall as you are, yeah.  Maybe not quite that tall.  

>>  Heather, do you say "hammocking" or "mocking."  Do you ever "go mocking"?  

>>  I say "hammocking", and I use "hammocking" as a verb.  "I'm going hammocking, hammocking is my favorite thing to do . . ." there are some editors in the world who would say "hammocking" is not a verb, like Larry Archer, who is editor . . .

>>  Who listens to this podcast, every episode.  [Laughing.]  

>>  Yes.  Larry would say hammocking is not a verb, and to do so is not . . . not great.  But I say, "I love to hammock."  

[50:00.]  

But yeah, I say "hammocking", yeah.  

>>  Have you ever heard anybody call it "mocking"?  

>>  No, I haven't, but I'm not in any hammocking groups or anything online, that that might come up, or yeah.    

>>  Okay.  I've heard that could be a term, but I've never heard it in use.  

>>  So, here is the hammock, it's in this tiny bag, which looks like the hammock would not be that big, but it is really wonderful.  

>>  Whenever you put it in the bag, when you're done with it . . .?  

>>  I just crunch it up.  

>>  Just cram it in there.  

>>  It's connected to this . . .

>>  Oh, it's connected to the bag, that's nice.  

>>  It's connected to the bag, yeah.  So, I have a double nest, which "double" means twice as much fabric.  Usually a double nest means "two person."  This one is up to 400 pounds.  Each hammock will have a weight specification on it that says "up to 200 pounds, up to 400 pounds . . ." this one, ideally, could have as many people, up to 400 pounds.  

>>  Wow.  Very sturdy.  

>>  Or, a lot of times, just one person . . . yeah.  It's got carabiners automatically on the end.  The carabiners always stay on there.  

>>  Did the carabiners come with the hammock?  

>>  Yes, the carabiners came with the hammock.  I bought it just like this.  It has some nylon straps in the carabiners, and the carabiners are going to hook into the suspension straps on the trees.  You can hook it higher or lower, depending on . . . your trees.  

>>  Right.  Oh my gosh, this is so easy!  

>>  It is, right?  You don't want to be too high up where you feel like you've got to jump into it, you know?  But, you don't want it to be too low, when you put your body weight . . . you're scraping the floor.  [Laughing.]  

>>  Right.  

>>  You can adjust the straps, go lower, go higher . . .

>>  Oh, that's so easy.  

>>  Yeah.  It's really easy.  So, I like to sit into the hammock first.  You can sit in your hammock and you can eat, you can sit up, you can do that.  So you're sitting, you feel good . . . and then you just kind of turn and lay . . .

>>  You're laying down?  

>>  You lay right into your hammock, right?  You can just look at the trees.  What I've found, is the swaying process is really . . . kind of resets the brain.  

[52:02.]  

You know?  I saw a video, occupational therapists that were talking about if you have a child that can't settle their brain, can't calm them down, put them in a blanket, and the two parents sway them back and forth like a hammock, and when they get up, it's like a brain reset.  I feel like that.  When I sway in my hammock and get up, I feel like after you've had a self-care like a massage, and you're just like . . . "I'm so calm, I'm so zen right now."  It does something to your brain that just is really. . . . I don't know.  For me, healing, kind of meditative.  

>>  Like a reset, like you said.  

>>  It is, yeah.  I love it.  So then, you can look at trees, listen to music, eat, do what you want to do . . . you can nap.  Then when you're ready to come out of your hammock, swing your legs over, go back to your seated position, and come out of your hammock.  

>>  See, I'm glad that you're giving a tutorial.  I know that people can't see this right now . . . I have seen "America's Funniest Home Videos" where people get trapped in a hammock.  

>>  Oh, yeah.  

>>  And they don't know how to get out.  

>>  People are really good at hammocks.  I've seen people roll in and roll out.  

>>  What do you mean, roll in and roll out?  

>>  They're acrobats.  They just kind of roll into it, flip over, and roll into it, and come out.  I've seen people stack their hammocks on a tree, like way high up.  And, they use the first one as leverage to hop into the other one.  I will tell you, they're great, but that is not me.  I'm your simple, one hammock, sit in it and then go to laying, and then go back to sitting, and then come out of your hammock.  I don't roll, I don't stack.  

>>  No theatrics.  [Laughing.]  

>>  No theatrics.  It's just "I'm here to relax, not break a hip."  [Laughing.]  That's what I use the hammock for.  Yeah.  I don't know if you prefer to try . . .

>>  I'd like to.  Can I try sitting in it?  

>>  Absolutely.  If you feel like it's a little too high for you to sit in it, then we can lower it . . .

>>  Ooh!  I'm getting in it!  I'm in it!  Oh, man . . . oh my gosh.  This is nice, Heather!  This is great.  

[54:01.]  

>>  Yeah.  Even just sitting is really nice and relaxing.  If sitting is more of your thing, but just to lay and relax . . .

>>  Get in with me!  Can we do a double sit?  You said it's a double nest.  

>>  Yes!  It is a double nest.  

>>  Is that enough . . .

>>  Yeah.  

>>  Oh, yeah!  

[Both laughing.]  

>>  We're good!  We're fine.  

[Both laughing.]  

>>  This is so nice!  

>>  Yeah.  If you sit with two people, usually you'd put your head that way, and I'd go that way, and you can do your . . .

>>  Or, we could be faced together.  

>>  Absolutely!  [Laughing.]  However you'd like to work.  

[Both laughing.]  

>>  Right next to your face.  [Laughing.]  This is great.  

>>  One thing too, is if you can find trees that are more in a triangle shape, like three trees, then the nice part is you can hang multiple hammocks and be in a triangle.  So, I could hang my hammock, you could hang yours, we could have a third person.  The nice part is that you can lay or sit and just have really nice conversation, face to face with people, while you're all . . .

>>  Have you done that?  

>>  I have, yes.  Two friends have hammocks, and a lot of times, we will meet for lunch, or just meet at the end of the day when it's really nice out, and set up our hammocks, and just enjoy the time to unwind.  It's so interesting, because when we first start, we'll be just chatting, and chatting, and going to town, and then you get to about 20 minutes in, and like. . . silence.  

>>  Because, they're in their reset stage.  

>>  Yes.  And, you're just like "okay, I really needed this.  I always think that's a gift, right?  You can be with friends and chat, but also just sit in silence, and also kind of . . . I don't know, refresh together, reset together, that's always nice too.  

>>  That you don't feel the need to constantly be talking . . . you're comfortable enough to enjoy the silence, and enjoy the tree canopy, and nature, and . . .

>>  Yeah, definitely.  Again, we're here, just on campus.  You know, there are cars that drive by, but it's still, what a tranquil setting.  Whether you're in an urban environment, and you want to just hammock at a local park, or even in your backyard, there's lots of settings.  You don't have to be way deep in nature, you know?  Though that's lovely . . . what I love about hammocking is that you can do it anywhere where you have trees, and that's a lot of places, even in a city environment.  Yeah.  Find a place to hammock, and as long as they have trees, you're in!  

>>  [Sighs.]  It is so relaxing.  Thank you for showing me how easy it is!  

>>  Oh, yes.  I hope you will maybe find your own hammock, and be able to hammock some time together!  

>>  I'd love that.  

>>  Or, you can always borrow mine, it's always in the back of my. . . .

>>  Aww!  

>>  Yeah.  Just come by, I'll give you the keys, and you can get it out, have lunch, or enjoy a nice hammocking session.  

>>  Thank you, Heather!  Thank you so much.  

[Music ♪.]  

>>  I hope this episode has inspired you to notice more of the good things in your day . . . maybe, not dwell so much on the negativity, and possibly spark a new idea for a hobby or a gratitude practice.  Or, it just gave you something new to think about, as we head near the end of 2024.  Thanks again to MDC's Heather Feeler for the wonderful discussion.  To NatureBoost producer Peg Craft, and of course, to you for listening and supporting NatureBoost.  I am forever grateful!  I'm Jill Pritchard with the Missouri Department of Conservation, encouraging you to get your gratitude mojo back, and also to get your daily dose of the outdoors.  

[Music ♪.]  

[Indistinct laughing, outdoor and campfire sounds.]  

[End of podcast at 57:53.]