NatureBoost
Podcast Episode 55: Northern Snakehead
August 2024
[Music ♪.]
>> Hey there, and welcome back to Nature Boost! I'm Jill Pritchard with the Missouri Department of Conservation. Before we get into this month's episode, I want to start off by giving a big shout out to all of our listeners! I have not thanked our listeners in a while, so I'm past due. But I just want everyone to know, I'm so grateful to all of you for tuning in each month to listen to the episodes. And, even those of you who reach out via the landing page, I actually sent a bunch of listeners some podcast swag within the last year or so, after they sent in episode ideas. And, we are going to do a similar giveaway later this summer. We've got some really cool new Nature Boost hoodies and T-shirts, and other fun goodies that I'm looking forward to sharing with you. So, keep listening, keep supporting the podcast, and stay tuned to hear about some fun new giveaways.
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So, let's get into this month's episode.
[Music ♪.]
Alright, I have invasive species coordinator Angela Sokolowski here with us today, and then also angler and outreach specialist Andrew Branson. We're going to talk about this northern snakehead. This has been in the news a lot recently.
>> Mhmm.
>> Yeah. Very interesting fish. I keep hearing the term, it's an "invasive fish."
[2:01]
>> That's right.
>> So, Angela, being our invasive species coordinator, what does "invasive" even mean?
>> Right. These terms can be easily confused. So, I'm just going to run through four main terms so that we can distinguish them. At first, we have "native." Native species are something that naturally occurs in a region. It evolved there, it's part of the ecosystem. Then, non-native is something that is introduced from a different place. It didn't evolve there, but it ended up there, often times through human activity. Then, when it comes to understanding "invasive", we have first "aggressive", and that's any species that can spread rapidly, and outcompete other species. Those can be native or non-native. So, we have some native species that are aggressive, and they tend to have large populations, or can have population booms.
When it comes to "invasive", that's a non-native species that is aggressive. So, it's not from here, and it's aggressive. That's an "invasive species."
>> Okay. So, "aggressive" can also be applied to native and non-native?
>> Correct.
>> Okay. So, this northern snakehead is considered a non-native, invasive species.
>> Correct.
>> Andrew, I'm going to pose this to you now, now that we have set the frame for what invasive is . . . what even is this fish? [Laughing.]
>> Yeah. The "snakehead", it almost sounds like something right out of a nightmare or horror movie or something, but . . . yeah, it's a fish that comes from Asia and parts of Africa. It's been introduced here into the United States. I guess you can say it's a long, cylindrical, torpedo-shaped fish, but they call it a snakehead, because again . . . the head of it looks a lot like a snake, I guess you could say. There's several different species, I guess there's about 30 species worldwide of snakeheads, but the northern snakehead, which is the species we're gonna be talking about, it also has kind of a snake-like pattern, you know? It has markings on it that kind of look like a snake.
[4:08]
>> It does!
>> Like a python.
>> Yeah, it kind of does, kind of like a python. But, snakehead fish are really unique in how they look. Yeah. That's the snakehead.
>> Okay. Well, we need to get into some weird, weirdness about this fish. [Laughing.]
>> That's right.
>> Because, it can breathe air?
>> That's right. There are a handful of fish that can do that, and the snakehead is one of them. Actually, the snakehead, if you actually see one swimming or, you know, see videos of them . . . they tend to hold their mouth closed. Their mouth isn't opening and closing, opening and closing like a regular fish. Their mouth is closed, because they're kind of "air gulpers."
They'll come to the surface, they'll actually break the surface, suck in some air, close their mouth, and hold it in there. Apparently, they've got gills like regular fish, but they have these air sacs above their gills that they can store that air in, and they work kind of like lungs. So, the snakehead because of that, they can breathe air. They can live in really low oxygen water, stagnant-type water, where other fish may leave that area to get to better water, they can live there. They just come to the surface and get fresh air.
The other creepy thing about it, is they can live on land for a while. As long as they don't dry out, they can breathe air while they're out of the water.
>> How long is a while?
>> Oh, I hear . . . you know, days. They can live several days out of the water, like three days, I think. It's not uncommon.
>> [unclear.] As long as their skin stays moist.
>> Yep. As long as they don't dry out.
>> Okay. So, they're able to slither like a snake from the water, up on to dry land?
>> Oh, yeah. [Laughing.]
>> Or, if they're thrown on dry land, they can make their way back to water.
>> Uh . . . yeah! It goes both . . . it's quite the traveler.
>> Definitely, yep.
>> Oh, my gosh. Alright. So, a little freaky.
>> Definitely.
[6:00]
>> Also, it has teeth? [Laughing.]
>> It does have teeth, yeah. It's a predator, you know? It'll go after whatever it can get ahold of and grab, but it has teeth.
>> It freaks me out whenever fish have teeth. I know that there are other . . . what's another common fish that has teeth in Missouri?
>> Well, I mean, the gar is most famous.
>> The gar . . . the alligator gar, yeah.
>> Yeah, alligator, long nose gar, all of those . . . other fish, you know, walleye have teeth. So, teeth are not uncommon in fish.
>> They're not uncommon?
>> Fish typically don't have big, nasty-looking, carnivore fangs like we often think of with some animals, but they definitely have teeth for grabbing a hold of stuff.
>> Wow. You mentioned it came from Asia. So, how did this get into Missouri? That's the big thing, is that this is an invasive fish. It can breathe air . . . now it's been popping up in the news lately, because we've had a few confirmed reports of anglers catching these fish.
>> Right, right.
>> Where did they catch these fish?
>> Yeah. The ones here in Missouri have been caught predominantly in southeast Missouri.
>> Okay. And that was on the St. Francis river?
>> That's right. Now we're starting to find them in other areas a little bit.
>> Okay.
>> We're pretty certain they came to Missouri from Arkansas. There was already an established population down in Arkansas. And, Angela can help me with this, but I think it was in 2008 . . . is that about right?
>> Yeah, the early 2000s, yep.
>> Yeah. That's when they were discovered in Arkansas. It was discovered that they had a reproducing population down there. So, it was probably just a matter of time before they worked their way out and up into Missouri. I guess 2019, I think, was the first one we saw here in Missouri.
>> Okay.
>> As far as the United States, I think 2002 was when they were first found in the United States. And, that was way up in the New England area, in Maryland of all places.
>> Oh, really? And how did it get there?
>> I'm not 100% sure. It definitely was brought there by human activity. So, how and why someone released it . . .
>> It was before they were placed on the Lacey Act as an injurious species, right?
[8:00]
At the point we determine they're an "injurious species", which has the capacity to cause harm to our environment . . . and so, prior to that determination, they were brought into the country either for live fish markets, for food, or in the pet trade, like the aquarium industry.
>> Oh, I see.
>> So, they were legally brought into the U.S., but they were introduced into the environment.
>> Yeah, I was telling Angela earlier that in an earlier career, I used to work in a pet store over on the West Coast of the United States.
>> You're kidding, right?
>> I lived in Oregon for a while, and I worked in a pet store there, and sure enough . . .
>> Were you in the fish part?
>> I was in the fish part . . .
>> Of course you were, Andrew! Alright, go ahead . . .
>> And, we sold snakeheads, for the home aquarium, believe it or not. Back then, that was in the early 90s, so snakeheads were just a little pet store fish. Of course, we knew they got big, and people would bring them back to the store once they outgrew their fish tank, but that very likely could have happened in how they got introduced in Maryland. Someone had it as a pet fish, and they just released it. That could possibly be one way.
>> Well, I think you could probably agree that happens a lot with the exotic, tropical fish.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> People have them as pets, and then you know, they dump their aquariums, and . . .
>> Which is why we always recommend that folks do not dump aquariums or live bait. Because, oftentimes we just don't know what that impact could be.
>> That's right, yeah. Most of the fish that people are getting in the pet stores are tropical fish, which means they require warm water year-round. And, Missouri gets cold enough that most of those fish, if they're illegally released, most of those fish aren't going to survive. However, there are some really tough, hardy fish like this northern snakehead, that our winters don't seem to phase it.
>> No, and from what I understand, the northern snakehead does well in colder waters. So, it has the ability to move a lot further north, and do well.
[10:08]
>> Yeah, lucky us!
>> Right! Okay, alright, so . . . that brings me to my next question. What makes this fish invasive? Why is this fish a problem, then?
>> It's basically well-equipped to outcompete our native species, right? It doesn't have a natural role in our aquatic ecosystems, but it's got so many ways that it can outcompete the species that we do have. They're excellent predators. I think Andrew mentioned that they can survive a variety of aquatic environments, including ones that other fish don't necessarily feel . . . necessarily thrive in, right?
And so, they can be in shallow, muddy, vegetative waters where other fish don't want to be, or where they elude any sort of detection by those of us who might be looking for them. So, they can stay hidden. They also protect their young, and make sure that their young fry fish survive.
>> Is that unique? Do other fish do that?
>> That is fairly unique. Missouri fishermen, anglers out there, they'll often find . . . as they're fishing, they'll find fish protecting a nest, or "on beds", as they call them, and guarding those eggs, and things like that. Usually, once the fish, once the eggs hatch, those little fish are kind of on their own for the most part. At that point, it's up to the fish to find cover, places to hide . . . but not with the snakehead. The snakehead, actually once these fish hatch, the parents, and it could be the male or the female, will guard these little nestlings, I guess you could call them . . .
>> Yeah. We call them "fry", and I've heard the herded group of baby fish called a "fry ball", because they keep them in a moving sphere of babies. And so, they will aggressively protect that "fry ball", and that is unique, compared to the fish that we normally have here.
>> And, the reports we've gotten from citizens who have caught a snakehead, that they witnessed that, they saw the fry balls, they saw the guarding by the adult fish, so . . .
[12:03]
>> Oh, wow.
>> That pretty much confirms that we've got reproduction going on here in Missouri.
>> So, that's not good news.
>> No, that is not good news.
>> Okay.
>> Like I said, it's a unique characteristic of this fish. So, by them even describing that, it's a pretty good idea that that is actually what they saw, and it is snakehead reproduction.
>> Wow. Okay, you mentioned how this fish came to the U.S. and it's been caught on the St. Francis river now. Do we know how many confirmed reports we've had in Missouri since 2019?
>> We do. There's been 14 caught this year. So, adding up since 2019, we're up to 17.
>> Oh, my gosh!
>> So, we're at the phase where we're not going to count any more. We know that they're here. We now they're reproducing, where they're at . . .
>> Right.
>> So, the first few, the count mattered. Now, we just need to know where they're at.
>> Right.
>> So, are all of these reports from the St. Francis river?
>> They're all from the St. Francis river watershed. That also includes Duck Creek Conservation Area, which is a wetland, and the neighboring Mingo National Wildlife Refuge, which is another wetland area. Those aren't directly on the river, the St. Francis river, but they are part of the watershed, which is the waters that all feed into the St. Francis river, and are connected to some degree.
>> If you think about the waters that they're found in currently in Arkansas, we've got connections with those waters. Apparently, they're in the Mississippi river. So, it's probably just a matter of time before they're found in the Missouri portion of the Mississippi, and of course that continues on up, and it's connected to the Missouri river. So, they've got a large avenue to spread. Down in Arkansas, they're also in the White River system, which connects to Missouri, and all that White River water system comes up into the Missouri, and then flows into the Current river, the Eleven Point river . . . there's lots of rivers connected to it. I haven't had reports of them yet in Missouri, in that area. Reportings would help track that.
[14:03]
>> That was going to be my next question. You were counting in the beginning. What's the process here, if somebody does encounter this fish?
>> We do want anglers to report catches or sightings. We have recently put a reporting webform up on the MDC website. So, folks can access this reporting form, and it's going to ask for some pretty basic information, including who's reporting, whether they caught the fish or saw the fish . . . it'll give them the opportunity to describe the location, and location . . . the more detail the better.
>> Sure.
>> And then, an opportunity to upload up to three photographs, so that we can confirm that the report is about snakehead, and not about a different fish, because we have a native bowfin that looks similar. We want to distinguish between the two. Folks can report that way.
>> Okay.
>> Via the website.
>> Real quick, let's talk about how it can easily get confused with a native bowfin. The Arkansas Game and Fish Commission has this wonderful comparison photograph of a snakehead versus a bowfin. And, the general shape of them does look similar.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> It's easy to see how they could get confused. But, describe what are some things that they could look for? Angela said earlier, the snakehead almost has that python pattern.
>> Right.
>> So, that seems to be a pretty big indicator.
>> Yeah. I get this question quite a bit from folks. As people are out there, and they're hearing more about the snakehead, a lot of citizens want to know the difference, because they know this is something they need to be on the lookout for, and help us with. You're right, the native bowfin, that's a fish that again, it's native to Missouri, it's a great fish, it's real unique. It's a beloved fish here in Missouri. So, we definitely need to tell those fish apart.
[16:00]
The snakehead has the long, snake-like body. Its head looks kind of snake-like. Again, the bowfin is real similar. There are a number of different characteristics between the two, but the main one, I think the easiest to look for, and the one I tell all folks who call in . . . look for the fin underneath the fish, it's called actually the anal fin. But, both fish, the bowfin and the snakehead, have a long fin that runs basically the length of the back. The snakehead also has a long fin underneath as well.
>> Mhmm.
>> That's the easiest way to think of it, is two long fins, one on the top, and one on the bottom. The bowfin does not . . . the bowfin has one long fin on the back, but not on the underside of the fish. So, look for that long, extended anal fin on the snakehead, and that's the easiest way to tell. And, the pattern like you said, it's definitely a python, snake-like on the snakehead. But, you know, coloration on the fish can really vary, depending on the mood of the fish, or the conditions you caught the fish out of. They can really wash out their colors, or they can make them stand out. So, coloration is not the best way to go. But, that fin, it's either going to be there, or it's not.
>> Yeah. That's a great thing to look for. And then, it looks like both of them can grow almost about the same in length . . .
>> Yep.
>> About 30 to 33 inches.
>> They can be pretty good-sized fish, definitely.
>> Wow, okay.
>> And the other thing to remember, is again . . . if people catch a fish, and they're not sure exactly which one it is, again . . . look for that long anal fin, that extended fin down below. That's a telltale sign. If someone caught one, and they aren't sure what it is, they really need to find out what it is before they start hauling this fish around to show somebody. Because, if it's a snakehead, it's illegal to actually transport a live snakehead around the state. The bowfin, the native fish, you can transport that. But, we don't want someone transporting a snakehead thinking it's a bowfin or killing a bowfin, thinking it's a snakehead . . .
>> Right.
>> You know? So, it's really important to identify it. We've got information on our website. I think we've got this image you're describing on our website.
[18:02]
>> We do. You mentioned that comparison image, and we do have that on our public website as well as on the reporting forms. So, if folks pull that up, if they happened to pull that up when they were in the field, or actually at their fishing site, that would help them make that distinguishing characteristics . . . be able to look at those right there, in the field.
>> Absolutely. That's a great way to be sure of identification, with that longer, anal fin. Alright. So, an angler positively identifies it, they've caught one, they know it's a snakehead. What do they do now?
>> Okay. We ask folks not to release it alive, or to throw it up on the bank, or on the shore alive.
>> Because it can breathe air and it can still live!
>> Exactly.
>> And it can go back into the water!
>> [Laughing.]
>> The traditional ways that a fish would die, out of water . . . like being put in a cooler of ice, or being put in a bucket, or thrown on shore, are not going to guarantee that this fish dies. And so, we ask that if people do catch them, that they kill them.
>> How do they kill them?
>> Well, there's a couple of ways. We recommend that you sever the head, or you gut it, which means removing the internal organs. Basically, just ensuring that it is dead, because it will stay breathing air if you don't actively take action to kill it.
>> I want to put a pin in this real quick, because I think I heard, and both of you can confirm this for me, if I heard this right . . . an angler who recently caught one this year left it on the shore, thinking that would kill it. And, it came back, and it was still alive.
>> Hours later.
>> Yeah.
>> In fact, the fish was in a sealed bag, right? Didn't he seal it in a bag, and left it somewhere?
>> Yes. He decided that he wanted to turn it in to the Corps of Engineer [sp?] office, and it was after hours, so he placed it in a plastic grocery sac, and hung it on the doorknob of the office . . .
[20:00]
>> [Laughing.]
>> And it was still alive, like 6+ hours after it was caught, and removed from the water.
>> Isn't that wild?
>> [Laughing.] It's wild on a few different points! It's wild that it's still living, and it's also . . . "oh, good morning, here's a crazy, invasive fish hung from my door!" [Laughing.]
>> They knew they had a special fish, and they knew that the authorities . . .
>> They knew what to do.
>> . . . would want to handle it, right.
>> He did the right thing, for sure. But it's just, this is so freaky and so bizarre that this fish can live that long out of water.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Okay. So, you want them to kill it?
>> Yes. We can't require folks to do so, but we hope that they feel obligated to do so, for the sake of the ecosystem, right?
>> Absolutely.
>> Yes.
>> Alright. Anything else they need to do?
>> I recommend folks take a picture, because again, they could put that on the reporting form. We'd love to have that reported, and a photo is a really easy way for us to confirm that you did have a snakehead, right? Since, it could still be confused with a bowfin. And, also to note the location. We'd love to know where these are being found, because we would like to track their spread. It's going to aid in our strategic thinking on how we're going to deal with these, and potentially try to manage them.
So, location and positive identification are the best things that anglers can do for us.
>> Perfect.
>> Yeah. And if the fish makes its way back into the water, we still want that report. If someone thinks they caught a fish, and they were trying to get a picture of it next thing, and they knew they dropped it or . . . "oh, my gosh it's gone back", and it gets into the water and it's gone . . . we still want them to contact us, and let us know what they encountered, and all of that.
>> Things happened, you know?
>> Yeah.
>> You probably feel bad, but we want that report. We want to know that you've found one.
>> Yeah.
>> And, all of this is on the MDC website, this reporting form . . . what do they do?
>> That's correct. Probably the easiest way is just to do a web search for "snakehead reporting MDC" and it's going to be within the first few options of any web search.
[22:07]
>> Mhmm.
>> It'll be really easy to pull up. We're going to be getting signs out at public accesses in different agency offices that have a QR code, and that will link directly to the webform. If folks don't have the ability to use a webform, we also have a phone number. You can just directly call the southeast regional office of MDC at 573-290-5730, and report snakehead catches there as well.
>> Okay, great! So, that's a great option. And this is pretty interesting too, because I think there's a larger conversation here about invasive species and spreading awareness so people know, and they know the difference between native and invasive?
>> Definitely.
>> Mhmm.
>> I just want to make it clear, that we're really relying on anglers as the key to help us track this species. We thank everybody who is able to report in, whether that's on the website or by telephone call, so that we can base our management on good information. Because, these fish have so far been hard for us to catch in our fish monitoring activities. It's going to be anglers that see these fish more often than we do. And so, we appreciate everyone's help, we appreciate the reporting, and also, folks just following the regulation and not possessing them alive or transporting them anywhere. So, many thanks to the anglers who are going to help with this effort for us.
>> Yeah. And that's statewide, not just the snakehead fish, but again, we've got our staff out there monitoring the populations all over the state. We can only be so many places. Our field staff rely on those reports from the citizens. It helps us to manage the populations of all sorts of things. Yeah, definitely everyone needs to know that, again, you can't transport these things alive, so don't haul them around to show people. Show us pictures. The other thing is, make sure you know what a bowfin looks like. Make sure you can tell the difference between these two.
[24:05]
>> Yeah, they are very similar. That's a good thing for people to be aware of. It's a freaky fish! I'm going to say it . . . it's definitely got some unique, bizarre qualities. And, those qualities truly make it bad news for Missouri, bad news for . . .
>> Unfortunately, it's well equipped to live here.
>> Yeah. So, good to know, and spread that awareness, and get the message out there! I thank you both for talking with me today about this, and getting everybody to go to the website to learn more, and hopefully they don't have to report one . . .
>> That's right.
>> But if they do, it's all there for you.
>> Thanks for giving us the opportunity to spread the word on this!
>> I appreciate it.
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>> We have a great page dedicated to the northern snakehead on our website. Just head to missouriconservation.org. In the search bar at the top, search "snakehead." There, you can find the snakehead fish reporting page. It has that graphic that we referenced earlier, comparing what the snakehead looks like, to our native bowfin. And, it also has the reporting form you can fill out if you see a snakehead, or happen to capture one while you're out fishing.
Thank you to my guests, invasive species coordinator Angela Sokolowski and fisheries program angler outreach specialist Andrew Branson for sitting down with me for today's episode. Thanks to Nature Boost producer Peg Craft, and thank you, for listening to another episode of Nature Boost. I'm Jill Pritchard with the Missouri Department of Conservation, encouraging you to get your daily dose of the outdoors.
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